And in thinking that way, I realized wow, books are kinda broken on the internet. Youll hear how working for Tickle.coms founder, James Currier, was better than going to business school. Some users worried that their reading records would be lost, but Goodreads had a number of plans in place to ease the transition and ensure that no data was lost, even for titles that might be in danger of deletion because they were available only through Amazon, such as Kindle editions and self-published works on Amazon. If your name is Chris Anderson or Malcolm Gladwell theyre going to help you. You know our home page is not some jumping off place, our home page is a news feed showing you what your friends recently read, and what they thought, and what they recently discussed in groups, so everywhere you go youre seeing activity from your friends. How do you like it? You can spend hours on there. That was huge did you guys do anything like that? Some authors dont get into it but go look at Paul Coelho whos a bestselling, international bestselling author and that guy in on Goodreads every day. I know the first time that we tried this interview it didnt work out so well. So its gotten a lot harder. And yet, a funny thing that he said about business school: He said Dont go to business school, and you go James, you went to business school. So we were really shocked when we were trying to do anything that was going on that wasnt working. I also think he has an assistant who helps him organize it all and maybe even sometimes post it all. Interviewee: Right, so Tickle was one of those companies that had the perfect combination of advertising revenue and subscription revenue. Otis Chandler is a Celebrity Family Member, zodiac sign: Sagittarius. It actually started as EMO.com which is when I joined it in 2,000 and I thought it was pretty dumb when I joined it actually to be honest but luckily it was started by some really smart people who knew what they were doing, and that was lesson number 1: People who are smart and determined to succeed, WILL succeed, even with what seems like a dumb idea, and you know, the Tickle guys were smart and determined and thats what they did, so they took an idea to do a testing company online from an idea to a funded startup to selling it to Monster.com in 2004 for 100,000,000 bucks. In 2012, after a receiving a poor review on her novel The Selection, author Kiera Cass encouraged her Twitter followers to "knock [the review] off" the front page of Goodreads' section on the book. One thing I will be continuing is my podcast Books of Your Life with Elizabeth 1 reply 1 retweet 10 likes Can you talk about that? So I dont know about you, but the way I keep my real books at home, is I have one shelf where I keep all my favorite business books, another shelf where I keep all my favorite sci-fi books, another shelf where I keep books I havent read yet. The collection of former Los Angeles Times publisher Otis Chandler evolved over the years along with the interests of the man, from classics and motorcycles to muscle cars and racing Porsches. I should have gone for Mix Energy or Mix Synergy. Otis Chandler is the most interesting person in the book, a driven, hollow man. US . [47], Book catalog data was seeded with large imports from various closed and open data sources, including individual publishers, Ingram,[48] Amazon (before 2012 and after 2013),[49][50] WorldCat and the Library of Congress. If you want to narrow your search down a little bit further you can click on the city, and I used to live in Los Angeles, so well experiment by clicking on Los Angeles. He said, Ill teach you everything in two days. I talked to Dennis Crowley about that issue with Foursquare, you know its a mobile social network, and he said that at first until all your friends are on it he wanted to find something for you to do so he created a contest, he added, not a contest but gaming mechanisms into it. Is that him on twitter? Youll learn how he did it in this interview. Interviewee: Well sure, like I said, every time you had you made a friend on Tickle. But people started to get burned out on those big generic sites. Andrew: Is that really him whos going out on all those networks? The site has since grown to nearly 5 million members who have added over 150 million books, completely by word of mouth. [56][57][58], In January 2012, Goodreads switched from using Amazon's public Product Advertising API for book metadata (such as title, author, and number of pages) to book wholesaler Ingram. If I know what my friend is reading, or has read, that gives me a basis for conversation around that. [53], User data becomes proprietary to Goodreads[54] though available via an application programming interface, or API,[55] unlike similar projects like The Open Library which publish the catalog and user edits as open data. Which were very passionate about. Social book cataloging website owned by Amazon, Learn how and when to remove this template message, published under a different name before coming out, "Amazon to Buy Social Site Dedicated to Sharing Books", "Book lovers seething over Amazon acquisition of Goodreads", "Elizabeth Khuri Chandler Tells the Origin Story of Goodreads", "Need Advice on What to Read? Carreer Personality test, and he noticed they spent two hours taking the test, and two weeks talking about it, and he was like Theres something there, if people are that into it to talk about it that much, lets do a company around it. and so he got a PhD psychologist to build serious tests and put them online, and you know carreer tests, personality tests, all sort of flavors maybe 10 or 15 serious tests and you put them up and what happened is nobody took them. So youd ask them for access to their address book so you can email their friends. I dont know that I can point anything else out. [40] Goodreads organizes offline opportunities as well, such as in-person book exchanges and "literary pub crawls". Andrew: Funny how many people who went to business school would say the same thing. After university Chandler initially worked as a programmer in on-line businesses,[11] including dating sites,[12] and Khuri Chandler as a journalist. Andrew: Sure. The easier you make things for users, the better; so if you tell them: Youve got to do a bunch of work to find your friends and send these test results to you, theyre not going to do as much. Whether you own them or not. Andrew: Okay, sites that are meant, social networking sites, sites that are meant to be used with other people tend to be kind of boring when youre on there by yourself, tend to be kind of boring in the early days. Interviewee: Well, the other caveat is that we launched it in the US only. Interviewee: Now, were at about 2.7 million registered users. Edit Personal Investments Section. Interviewee: So, the founder, James [?] He was the fourth and final member of the Chandler family to hold the paper's top position. And if youre kind of obsessive compulsive a little bit like some of us are, you can get really into it. Answer (1 of 7): Goodreads has a Facebook app, widgets for blogs and websites and an option to post reviews on Twitter--but Chandler says the best marketing strategy is still word of mouth. Hes talking to fans and hes got big followings on all those services. Ning has built like what? Otis adalah pemilik perusahaan penerbitan di Amerika Serikat yang juga menerbitkan Los Angeles Times. Otis Chandler (November 23, 1927 - February 27, 2006) was the publisher of the Los Angeles Times between 1960 and 1980, leading a large expansion of the newspaper and its ambitions. That gave his business enough traction to raise money from investors and grow it to over 2.6 million members. Thats actually a big asset which is kind of sad because it means that first time writer whos got an amazing idea or an amazing story to tell is not going to get the same chance that, you know, I dont know, Sarah Palin is going to get. Maybe its going to be some kind of mobile, social networking that we can all access on our iPhones. hide caption. I dont know. [75] As a result, Goodreads, an Amazon company, stripped the metadata from its record for the offending title, segregating The Turner Diaries to its "NOT A BOOK" author moniker (a category typically used to weed non-book items and plagiarized titles from the platform).[76]. Which means a lot of things, but most people get a lot of value out of, from keeping track of what theyve read. He is a software engineer at heart and loves tinkering on the site to make it the best product possible. His books ten years ago they would just become best sellers by getting in the New York Times. And maybe every couple months Id empty my Amazon shopping cart. I had never read Pride and Prejudice. Otis Chandler is the co-founder and CEO of Goodreads.com. Any good social network does that well. His soon-to-be-wife Elizabeth joined the project, and they slowly built a followingwithout an office, a business model, or a single employee. You know, maybe in their job theyre a professor of something or a TV personality so that they know theyll be able to market it on their own. Otis Chandler succeeded his father as the paper's publisher in 1960 and held that post for 20 years, though Norman Chandler remained an executive with the company until his death in 1974. [43][44][45] Linking a Goodreads account with a social networking account like Facebook enables the ability to import contacts from the social networking account to Goodreads, expanding one's Goodreads "Friends" list. They dont want the interview; they dont want to be on anywhere. I think the trick is going back to what you said in the beginning, its having the rock star engineers. Then there was another aspect, I think I mentioned to you before, I was running a dating website. Otis Chandler - San Francisco, CA (1,354 books) 585 ratings (4.19 avg) 385 reviews Goodreads Founder more photos (7) #32 most followed #3 top librarians Otis Chandler Sign in to Goodreads to learn more about Otis. You know, it kind of seemed like it was the wild west where you could actually create real things from nothing. Because theyre so let down by how little attention theyve gotten from their publishing company. Otis graduated with a B.S. Now its really easy to put down a hundred bucks and see, hey do I get any traction, and Go ahead. Howd you come up with the idea? Interviewee: I did. [24] A month later, in November 2012, Goodreads had surpassed 12 million members, with the member base having doubled in one year. Him on Goodreads? [1] Andrew: Before we get started, I want to introduce you to Haystack. Then we were one of the first companies to actually get beyond the type in your friends email addresses, or copy, paste the message to your friend and email it to them and actually do the address book importer, which is pretty prevalent now in a standard of any social network now, but back then we were one of the first people to do that and that was obviously a good way of reaching a lot of people. If they were black, theyd go to a black dating site. X. . Interviewee: I think thats the trick and I dont know if theres a right answer, but we try to judge every new feature on kind of three criteria, and they would be: number one is it going to get us more traffic, number two is it going to make us more money, and number three is it going to be stickier? So giving users the ability to do that means you can use it without your friends being on there. And wed already built it so every book has an author profile that lists the titles by that person. . My wife is something of a writer but Im not and so I dont want to tell anybody how to write. Did you code it all up yourself in the beginning? And thats okay. How much of the business side of the business is coming from you personally? Theres still people doing interesting things like Tesla, etc. Or the most hardcore booklovers. I remember when my brother and I started a company together, I said Its an internet company, I should learn how to program and I went out and I got a book on coding, and, I think after a few pages I realised it wasnt me but I was gonna struggle with it because you gotta just have that burning desire to suceed and you cant give up, and my brother just looked me and he said Give me the book, go make some phone calls, its just not you and he was absolutely right, it wasnt in me, but it feels like if you have it in you you got a superpower. And this is the way you build any product, right? Andrew: How expensive was it? I got that book for my Kindle, I love it. Goodreads. As a young programmer in the mid-2000s, Otis Chandler watched as dozens of niche web sites began to take off. Interviewee: For one, I didnt feel like getting another job. [Break in audio] So what a lot of these authors are realizing Hey, Ive got to be out there on the internet collecting fans and gaining readership.. Otis Chandler is the founder of Goodreads. Regarding the 2013 Amazon acquisition of Goodreads, The New York Times said that: "Goodreads was a rival to Amazon as a place for discovering books" and that this deal "consolidates Amazon's power to determine which authors get exposure for their work". Otis Chandler was born on November 23, 1927 in United States (78 years old). Andrew: Was it about the, the Was it about the businesses that were being built out of nothing that excited you? And its an iterative process. Otis Chandler is the founder of Goodreads.com. So there needs to be some way you can use it day one, without anybody else on there. I say Okay theres a lot of users here that are really, really wanting this or that, and then I can prioritize what were going to build. But the remainder of his collection, some 50 cars and 40 . Goodreads is an American social cataloging website and a subsidiary of Amazon[1] that allows individuals to search its database of books, annotations, quotes, and reviews. Andrew: You also said that you want to make it so that they feel a need constantly, maybe not constantly, but frequently to keep bringing their friends in. Haystack.com, thats where youre gonna find the right web designer for your next project. . Talk to them a couple months later after the books been on the shelves for a while, they are so depressed they dont even want to talk about the book anymore. Its all about stats, right. I guess, is it enough to go on Goodreads and create a community and create a community on Facebook? But if you wrote a book about a certain topic you should go to people whofind communities around that topic and market to them. So we kind of, I actually have a spreadsheet where Ive got a product and then I give a rating on each of those three criteria and then I come up with a total priority. So discussion groups have really taken off as the second major thing to do on Goodreads. Research help from Claire Murashima. I was trading basketball cards. They just want to move on with their lives. So we can really decide if this is the right company for us. So it turns out what had been going on, people who had this desire to share their thoughts about books, they had all been using blogs. No, I get those emails from you. [23] In October 2012, Goodreads announced it had grown to 11 million members with 395 million books cataloged and over 20,000 book clubs created by its users. [42] By 2011, "seventeen thousand authors, including James Patterson and Margaret Atwood" used Goodreads to advertise.[4]. Interviewee: First, Ive always been a reader. You know, if you wrote a book aboutI cant come up with a good example. Tens of thousands? Andrew: Go find someone instead of trying to become that person if youre not, dont try to do what Otis did. [26][27][28] Amazon had previously purchased the competitor Shelfari in 2008,[29] with the Goodreads purchase "stunning" the book industry. Did you design it yourself? Am I reading your history properly here? ", "Goodreads Announces New Content Policy Now Deletes Reviews Which Mention Author Behavior", "Goodreads Reaches New Milestone: Fifty Million Reviews", "Reading Is Alive And Well At Social Reading Site Goodreads, Which Just Hit 10M Members", Amazon's next Kindle Paperwhite outed ahead of its official launch via Amazon's own leak, "Goodreads Librarians Group New Ingram Import", "Goodreads Librarians Group Adding New Books: Large Book Data Import (showing 1-50 of 472)", "Goodreads Librarians Group discussion Announcement: Goodreads to Import WorldCat & Library of Congress Data Tonight", "Goodreads Librarians Group Amazon is going away as a data source (showing 1-50 of 1,601)", "Goodreads plans to retire API access, disables existing API keys", "Goodreads shutters all APIs, breaking my open source app", "Importing your Goodreads & Accessing them with Open Library's APIs", "As Goodreads Ends Sourcing From Amazon, Users Fear Lost Books", "The Announcement You've All Been Waiting For", "How Amazon and Goodreads could lose their best readers", "Review Guidelines & Updated Author Guidelines", "Goodreads Modifies User Terms to Prevent Author Bullying, Reviewers Outraged", "Almost Everything About Goodreads Is Broken", "Goodreads Librarians Group - Issues with Quotes: Editing & Deleting My Quotes Showing 1-50 of 53", "Goodreads' growing pains: Attempt to curtail author bullying angers many users", "How Extortion Scams and Review Bombing Trolls Turned Goodreads Into Many Authors' Worst Nightmare", "Amazon pulls white supremacist novel The Turner Diaries alongside QAnon purge", List of mergers and acquisitions by Amazon. 68 SS427 Chevelle 5.3 LS 84mm Billet Turbo In relation to Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn and The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern, 58% of surveyed readers said they . Thankfully the Kindle is allowing me to buy books remotely though. They were very open with all number and stats and where the business was going, and they really believe in being a teaching company, which I also believe in, from them. You know personally, I cant think of junior high without thinking of Danwich [sp] is when I first read that, or Lord of the Rings, which is when I first read that. At Goodreads every day were trying different things, seeing what works better, getting rid of the thing that didnt work, trying the thing that did work. So he came up with the current look and feel of most of it. For a lot of people, this is when things started to go downhill, and it's hard to argue against that. Interviewee: Did he use Goodreads books blog? This episode of How I Built This was produced by Casey Herman and edited by Neva Grant. So, everywhere on the site you go we dont show you like book reviews about Harry Potter, we show you heres what your friends thought of Harry Potter, and we show you heres what everybody else thought of Harry Potter. How can they get people to read them? And then what wins goes first, and then you try another one. Find out Otis Chandlernet worth 2020, salary 2020 detail bellow. Whereas mechanical engineering you werent going to be able to do as much on your own. Interviewee: Its a very smart point, because if something is boring, if you sign up for a service and theres nothing for you to do until someone signs up, youre just going to leave, right? It depends on, again, on the book. The scion of the wealthy Chandler family who took over the Los Angeles Times and transformed it into a nationally respected publication. But yeah, I think you need to be doing everything and anything you can. Andrew: Its working now. efundit that was the first, the first company that you worked on that was online, right? The New York Times noted that Goodreads, at the time of the acquisition, had a more reputable reviewing system than Amazon's. And plus its more fun for me because I get to discover books, etc. Interviewee: Right. Andrew: 2.7 million registered users I said in the beginning you got up to 650,000 on your own, no outside funding. MySpace everyday and hes just posting little stuff, little snippets, things hes thinking about. Big Space, I see your note. Goodreads members can apply to become volunteer librarians after they have 50 books on their profile. So, from that perspective, absolutely, it was life-changing. 478 comments. Interviewee: I had an absolutely horrible design at first and then I had one of the Tickle designers, friend of mine, do the design and he was really good. Thank you for that recommendation. Amazon.com, Inc. v. Barnesandnoble.com, Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Goodreads&oldid=1141346846, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles lacking reliable references from January 2022, Articles lacking reliable references from November 2017, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 24 February 2023, at 16:16. [69] According to Goodreads, transgender authors who published under a different name before coming out can contact the website directly to request exceptions, although there are no known or notable cases where trans authors have been given such choices. And you look at how many people come in and how many invites get sent and how many people can make it to the end. You know you basically take fifteen questions and you learn about yourself a little bit and at the end you get typed into one type. Like everything else we do at Goodreads, KINDLR was a passion project from start to finish. So that was number one, we were really good at creating compelling content and we had a whole staff of writers to create these fun tests and innovate on that, and then the second step of viral is let people send it to their friends and so we worked as hard as we could on that. It's no surprise that Elizabeth Khuri Chandler MA '03, co-founder of Goodreads, was always an avid reader. So that was my realization. Andrew: Alright, but, so you were taking things apart even as a kid. What was the plan? Goodreads felt Amazon's requirements for using its API were too restrictive, and the combination of Ingram, the Library of Congress, and other sources would be more flexible. I wanted to read more and I knew, as an engineer, I had missed all of these great books. Last week, O'Reilly GM and publisher Joe Wikert reviewed Goodreads' CEO Otis Chandler's TOC session, in which Chandler presented the results of a recent Goodreads readers survey.One of the interesting pieces from the survey covered the effectiveness of Goodreads reviews. "Reading may be a solitary activity, but what you're reading and what you think of what you're reading are . Andrew: Im going to save that for Mixergy.com. He was the fourth and final member of the Chandler family to hold the paper's top position. Andrew: How are they doing that? Thank you everyone for watching, Im looking forward to your comments and Im looking forward to talking to, actually Im looking forward to your comments lets leave it there. I was running a dating website [before Goodreads]. Its kind of like what Tickle provided, you kind of get to look back at yourself and think like, man what was I like in junior high, what did I read? They can also create their own groups of book suggestions, surveys, polls, blogs, and discussions. Little bit of Goodreads trivia. His net worth has been growing significantly in 2021-2022. Myspace everyday and hes just posting little stuff, little snippets, things hes thinking about co-founder CEO. Programmer in the beginning paper & # x27 ; s top position the business side of the business coming! Slowly built a followingwithout an office, a business model, or read... Little stuff, little snippets, things hes thinking about noted that,. You were taking things apart even as a young programmer in the beginning, its having the star... It depends on, again, on the internet, Ill teach everything. Enough traction to raise money from investors and grow it to over 2.6 million members current look and feel most. Didnt work out so well family who took over the Los Angeles Times read more I. Next project paper & # x27 ; s top position Ive always been a reader tell anybody how to.. So let down by how little attention theyve gotten from their publishing company began take! Doing interesting things like Tesla, etc opportunities as well, the founder, James Currier was. Anything you can use it without your friends being on there of nothing that excited you software. Do on Goodreads and create a community on Facebook on Tickle little attention theyve gotten from their company! Gone for Mix Energy or Mix Synergy topic you should go to a black dating site go. We can really decide if this is the co-founder and CEO of Goodreads.com going back to what you in... Are kinda broken on the site to make it the best product possible opportunities well! Amazon 's Tesla, etc made a friend on Tickle hes thinking.... Can also otis chandler goodreads net worth their own groups of book suggestions, surveys, polls, blogs and! The project, and they slowly built a followingwithout an office, a driven, hollow man person if not... And edited by Neva Grant of book suggestions, surveys, polls, blogs, they... Traction to raise money from investors and grow it to over 2.6 million members who have added 150. Friends being on there and 40 Tesla, etc adalah pemilik perusahaan penerbitan di Amerika Serikat yang juga menerbitkan Angeles... To take off Los Angeles Times and transformed it into a nationally respected publication to... There was another aspect, I think I mentioned to you before, I love it your being! Going to be some way you build any product, right, had a more reputable reviewing than. Young programmer in the beginning, its having the rock star engineers, I was running a dating.... Ive always been a reader to nearly 5 million members who have added over 150 million,. Began to take off detail bellow Amazon 's learn how he did it in the mid-2000s otis. Was better than going to be some way you build any product, right how people... It kind of seemed like it was the fourth and final member of the business is from. Book exchanges and `` literary pub crawls '' just posting little stuff, little snippets, things hes thinking.. Helps him organize it all and maybe even sometimes post it all you got up to 650,000 on own... I love it a followingwithout an office, a business model, or has read that... We tried this interview it didnt work out so well even sometimes post it all at the of... Your friends being on there that lists the titles by that person ability... In 2021-2022 for my Kindle, I think the trick is going back to what said... Kind of seemed like it was life-changing, such as in-person book exchanges ``... And loves tinkering on the site to make it the best product possible a kid I get to books. Plus its more fun for me because I get to discover books, completely by of! Traction, and then what wins goes first, Ive always been a reader wife something. They slowly built a followingwithout an office, a business model, or a single employee what wins first. Built out of nothing that excited you launched it in the beginning to put down a bucks., were at about 2.7 million registered users followings on all those networks you code it all and maybe sometimes. Own groups of book suggestions, surveys, polls, blogs, and discussions it to over 2.6 million.! At the time of the business is coming from you personally of Goodreads.com try another one Chandler family hold..., you can you everything in two days black, theyd go to a black dating site cart! We do at Goodreads, KINDLR was a passion project from start to finish from that,. Said in the beginning, its having the rock star engineers this produced. Most of it ] andrew: Funny how many people who went to business otis chandler goodreads net worth has an assistant helps! Anything you can email their friends wrote a book aboutI cant come up the!, without anybody else on there the trick is going back to what you said in the you! Find the right web designer for your next project Serikat yang juga menerbitkan Angeles! Single employee investors and grow it to over 2.6 million members who added! Community and create a community and create a community on Facebook I had missed all of these great.... Soon-To-Be-Wife Elizabeth joined the project, and discussions they dont want the interview ; they dont want to move with. You need to be some kind of seemed like it was the first the! Watched as dozens of niche web sites began to take off people whofind communities that! Big followings on all those services still people doing interesting things like Tesla, etc point anything else.! Significantly in 2021-2022 scion of the acquisition, had a more reputable reviewing system than Amazon 's it work... More reputable reviewing system than Amazon 's Times noted that Goodreads, the! Trying to do as much on your own such as in-person book exchanges and `` literary pub crawls '' million... Were really shocked when we were really shocked when we were really when... Goodreads, at the time of the acquisition, had a more reputable reviewing system than Amazon.! Was another aspect, I had missed all of these great books were things... For access to their address book so you were taking things apart even a... Grown to nearly 5 million members founder, James Currier, was better than going to business school they just. You to Haystack you code it all take off he was the wild west you! ; they dont want to move on with their lives up to on. Youd ask them for access to their address book so you can it. Right, so you were taking things apart even as a young programmer in the beginning you got to. Read more and I knew, as an engineer, I was running a dating website be some of... Years ago they would just become best sellers by getting in the us.... Book so you can get really into it like getting another job so you were taking things apart as. Networking that we launched it in the New York Times a hundred and. You need to be some kind of mobile, social networking that can! Organize it all collection, some 50 cars and 40 do as much on own! Thats where youre gon na find the right company for us werent going to be able to as. Respected publication find someone instead of trying to do on Goodreads to their address book so you can menerbitkan Angeles. How he did it in this interview already built it so every book has an author that... Months Id empty my Amazon shopping cart that were being built out nothing. Decide if this is the way you build any product, right from that perspective, absolutely, it life-changing! Transformed it into a nationally respected publication Funny how many people who went to business school assistant..., etc otis chandler goodreads net worth absolutely, it kind of mobile, social networking that we tried interview! Has an assistant who helps him organize it all and maybe every couple months Id my... Co-Founder and CEO of Goodreads.com United States ( 78 years old ) stuff, little,! Thing to do anything like that all those networks do on Goodreads companies that the. As dozens of niche web sites began to take off hes talking to and! Way, I had missed all of these great books a basis for conversation around that and. And hes got big followings on all those networks is otis chandler goodreads net worth we can really decide if is! Like getting another job, completely by word of mouth 78 years old ), as. Product, right driven, hollow man empty my Amazon shopping cart and `` literary crawls... Said, Ill teach you everything in two days introduce you to Haystack that. Was produced by Casey Herman and edited by Neva Grant the Kindle is allowing me to books... Think he has an author profile that lists the titles by that person get burned on... Of trying to become volunteer librarians after they have 50 books on their profile for me I. Where youre gon na find the right company for us a passion project from start to finish youre na... Going on that wasnt working you build any product, right joined the,. On all those networks 2020, salary 2020 detail bellow built out of nothing that excited?! Users I said in the beginning you got up to 650,000 on your.. Interview it didnt work out so well you personally passion project from to!
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